fluidfloyd
Active Member
Mike...So what kind of comp motor were you disguising from your competition! Notice, I did not say cheating.
Busted bolt
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Mike...So what kind of comp motor were you disguising from your competition! Notice, I did not say cheating.
Mike
Well-Known Member
Heh, we raced inline six-cylinders and V-6's. You quickly learned the need to make almost everything. Two BBC valve covers could be cut and welded to make a large enough cover for an inline motor. Finish the weld nicely and re-anodize the cover and it would almost look like it had come off the assemble line like that. Have band saw and welder, will travel. 
Mike
Well-Known Member
It was just a 292 inline 6. But you could say that motor had considerable valve lift, and with a set of roller rocker arms, there was no way an inline valve cover was going to clear everything. You know, that was back in the mid-80's and you would scoff if I were to tell you how much lift that motor had. It was Star Wars stuff, believe me. If you plugged the lobe lift and the rocker ratio into a calculator, the answer would come up as, 'A LOT'.
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Those 292's are torque monsters anyways. I have one in a 66 C60 flat bed dump (grain truck) with a 4 speed/2 speed diff, and it amazes me how well it pulls. I thought about turning it into a car hauler for toys.It was just a 292 inline 6. But you could say that motor had considerable valve lift, and with a set of roller rocker arms, there was no way an inline valve cover was going to clear everything. You know, that was back in the mid-80's and you would scoff if I were to tell you how much lift that motor had. It was Star Wars stuff, believe me. If you plugged the lobe lift and the rocker ratio into a calculator, the answer would come up as, 'A LOT'.
fluidfloyd
Active Member
Heh, we raced inline six-cylinders... Finish the weld nicely and re-anodize the cover and it would almost look like it had come off the assemble line like that. Have band saw and welder, will travel.
I seem to remember us talking about this very subject and names like Joe Williamson, Pat David Majors, Kay Sissle, Cotton Perry and others coming up. Lot's of Ford V-8 heads sectioned up, rearranged and welded back together to get Six Cylinder Boss Heads. I think those were truly the golden years of comp racing. The guys that ended up with the Reher_Morrison Maverick talked about building a hybrid head car and Floyd Fry and I went to Antioch, Tennessee to visit David Majors. He was very gracious and allowed us to look his head over in detail. He also gave me a ton of technical information on how and where to make the cuts and the procedure to weld it back together. I really had very little experience in welding cast iron but was ready to take it on but they decided to buy the Maverick so I got a pass on a lot of work. In years later I welded a number of things much worse. Great times that will never happen again. I did hear of a pair of LS Chevy heads being cut up and made into a inline six engine but I haven't tracked it down yet. All Good and All Fun.
George
David Majors, Left Lane Joe Williamson, Right Lane
Mike
Well-Known Member
Wow, those pics bring back the memories. I worked at Fleenor, back in 1973 and 1974.
Not sure whose trailer that was, as Smokin' Joe's trailer is in the background. Redd's was a long, long-time sponsor of that car. Joe and Pat are as nice a couple as you could ever hope to meet. I was always intrigued by that car, so it seemed fitting when I was working with Brian on the 6 cylinder dragster. Every now and again, Pat will post old photos of the car to her Facebook account, and it is fun to see them.
Bluegrass Dragway. Woo-hoo, Lexington, KY. That track was a PITA, because our A/ED was too long to get onto the scales. The scales were on a wee knob, in the midst of the pits, and we would have to pick up the front end of the car and drag it up, so the back wheels were on the scales. We would then set the front end down on a frame stand, so they could weigh the car.
We were only there for one race, before they closed the place down. When we were going down, the guy I ended up working for told us the best pit spot was 'under the tree'. He just laughed and told us we would understand when we got there. It wasn't hard to figure it out, because there was only one tree in the entire pit area.
The place wasn't much to look at, but that starting line had teeth. Cars were shelling rear ends, right and left. I think Joe broke on the starting line, that day. If a car broke, they would just shove it out in the grass and keep right on racing. I think we got down to four cars that day, and the starting line area looked like a city street, with broken race cars parked in the grass along the asphalt.
The guy who owned the Pocket Rocket Chevy II, that Cotton drove, was the guy who built the inline motors for Brian. Jim Headrick was his name. He owned Race Engine Design, down in Rossville, GA. Cotton drove for Brian for a couple of years, and even won back-to-back national events (Columbus and Montreal) in that car, back in 1985. Jim passed away a few years back, but the shop is still rocking and rolling.
Jim was a riot. Brian had crashed at Ohio Valley, in late 1988 or 1989. It was a Weddle car, but he took what was left to Murf and had him rebuild the car. When we got the car back, Brian wanted something completely different, so he went with this paint -
(The car was leaving the starting line on the #1 qualifying shot, in that photo.)
The photo does the car zero justice. The pink and the orange nearly glowed in the dark, it was so brilliant. Brian had Brando hand-paint all the sponsor logos on the car in a powder-blue. The only actual decal on the car was a Get Well Darrell Gwynn decal.
Anyway, when we got the car back from the painter, we made plans to go down to Bowling Green, KY, to test. Jim found out we were going to rent the track, so he made plans to drive up to see us. We were already unloaded when Jim drove up. He got out of the car, and I said howdy, but he didn't make a sound. Brian tried getting him to talk, but he was quiet as a church mouse. He kept walking around the car, looking at it, and looking at us.
Finally, after about 15 minutes of absolute silence, he very quietly asked, "Uhm, is that PINK?!?"
I was puirless.
It's a mighty good thing threads never swerve off-topic around here, aye?
Not sure whose trailer that was, as Smokin' Joe's trailer is in the background. Redd's was a long, long-time sponsor of that car. Joe and Pat are as nice a couple as you could ever hope to meet. I was always intrigued by that car, so it seemed fitting when I was working with Brian on the 6 cylinder dragster. Every now and again, Pat will post old photos of the car to her Facebook account, and it is fun to see them.
Bluegrass Dragway. Woo-hoo, Lexington, KY. That track was a PITA, because our A/ED was too long to get onto the scales. The scales were on a wee knob, in the midst of the pits, and we would have to pick up the front end of the car and drag it up, so the back wheels were on the scales. We would then set the front end down on a frame stand, so they could weigh the car.
We were only there for one race, before they closed the place down. When we were going down, the guy I ended up working for told us the best pit spot was 'under the tree'. He just laughed and told us we would understand when we got there. It wasn't hard to figure it out, because there was only one tree in the entire pit area.
The place wasn't much to look at, but that starting line had teeth. Cars were shelling rear ends, right and left. I think Joe broke on the starting line, that day. If a car broke, they would just shove it out in the grass and keep right on racing. I think we got down to four cars that day, and the starting line area looked like a city street, with broken race cars parked in the grass along the asphalt.
The guy who owned the Pocket Rocket Chevy II, that Cotton drove, was the guy who built the inline motors for Brian. Jim Headrick was his name. He owned Race Engine Design, down in Rossville, GA. Cotton drove for Brian for a couple of years, and even won back-to-back national events (Columbus and Montreal) in that car, back in 1985. Jim passed away a few years back, but the shop is still rocking and rolling.
Jim was a riot. Brian had crashed at Ohio Valley, in late 1988 or 1989. It was a Weddle car, but he took what was left to Murf and had him rebuild the car. When we got the car back, Brian wanted something completely different, so he went with this paint -
(The car was leaving the starting line on the #1 qualifying shot, in that photo.)
The photo does the car zero justice. The pink and the orange nearly glowed in the dark, it was so brilliant. Brian had Brando hand-paint all the sponsor logos on the car in a powder-blue. The only actual decal on the car was a Get Well Darrell Gwynn decal.
Anyway, when we got the car back from the painter, we made plans to go down to Bowling Green, KY, to test. Jim found out we were going to rent the track, so he made plans to drive up to see us. We were already unloaded when Jim drove up. He got out of the car, and I said howdy, but he didn't make a sound. Brian tried getting him to talk, but he was quiet as a church mouse. He kept walking around the car, looking at it, and looking at us.
Finally, after about 15 minutes of absolute silence, he very quietly asked, "Uhm, is that PINK?!?"
I was puirless.
It's a mighty good thing threads never swerve off-topic around here, aye?
Hey, Mike;
I'd like to see the engine program that calls out a cam combo as "a lot"... . That has to be one serious one-up-manship version... .
Don't know if you've seen this from another site, but thought you'd like it, if you haven't:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/300-ford-6-dohc-home-and-running.943107/ . I'm impressed w/the headwork. & gives me way too many ideas...
To the OP: another thing you can try, is using a butane torch to heat up the crank snout & broken bolt, & then using some paraffin wax (like used to seal jelly in jars years ago - still available at hardware stores, & fleet-farm, etc) on the seam. It'll melt down the thread seam, & help lube up the threads for an easier out. If you have a really decent (fairly deep w/straight sides) slot cut into the end of the broken bolt, using an air chisel w/a screwdriver-&-handle-attachment work wonders. If you haven't used or seen, one before, it is easy to make. You need some air chisel bit, & a piece of steel for a handle. If you use a air chisel (chisel) bit, flatten it out & grind the end to approximate a large flat-blade screwdriver bit. Or weld on one of the universal hex-bit holders onto the end of the air chisel shank. Then, below the point where it fits into the air chisel holder, weld on the piece of steel at 90* angle. A junk smaller (#2) screwdriver works well here, esp as it already has a cushion on the handle - which you will *really* appreciate when you use it. (One I had used a medium-sized allen wrench for a handle, which really gave my hand a serious buzz. Wasn't going to sacrifice one of my Snap-On screwdrivers. Next time, a Crapsman gets sacrificed...
). To use: just use the air chisel normally, but at reduced (at 1st) air pressure, while keeping some weight on it to prevent bit from slipping out of slot. Let it hammer for a moment, then using the handle, lightly turn the bolt out. Trick here is to *never* force the handle around. It'll turn easy when it's ready. This usually works when nothing short of a torch will. The vibration set up by the air chisel loosen rust/corrosion, & even helps w/crossthreaded bolts, up to a point. If this doesn't work, weld a nut on w/a washer underneath. Use as high as an amperage as possible, & while it's still smokin'(literally), you could either use the air chisel w/a adapter for a socket-w/a-handle-welded-on, or just use the biggest nastiest impact driver available. The only thing I don't like about impacts, is that they tend to damage the threads - both male & female - of what you're trying to separate, due to the manner in which the impacts operate. But sometimes it's better than the last alternative. Of course, there is always the EDM process, or as mentioned, drill/tap/pick-out-thread-bits if you're good enough. I've done that, too. I'd post a pic, but have no luck w/that in any forum. If someone wants to repost it, I'll send them a pic of what I'm trying to describe.
FWIW.
Marcus...
I'd like to see the engine program that calls out a cam combo as "a lot"...
. That has to be one serious one-up-manship version... .Don't know if you've seen this from another site, but thought you'd like it, if you haven't:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/300-ford-6-dohc-home-and-running.943107/ . I'm impressed w/the headwork. & gives me way too many ideas...
To the OP: another thing you can try, is using a butane torch to heat up the crank snout & broken bolt, & then using some paraffin wax (like used to seal jelly in jars years ago - still available at hardware stores, & fleet-farm, etc) on the seam. It'll melt down the thread seam, & help lube up the threads for an easier out. If you have a really decent (fairly deep w/straight sides) slot cut into the end of the broken bolt, using an air chisel w/a screwdriver-&-handle-attachment work wonders. If you haven't used or seen, one before, it is easy to make. You need some air chisel bit, & a piece of steel for a handle. If you use a air chisel (chisel) bit, flatten it out & grind the end to approximate a large flat-blade screwdriver bit. Or weld on one of the universal hex-bit holders onto the end of the air chisel shank. Then, below the point where it fits into the air chisel holder, weld on the piece of steel at 90* angle. A junk smaller (#2) screwdriver works well here, esp as it already has a cushion on the handle - which you will *really* appreciate when you use it. (One I had used a medium-sized allen wrench for a handle, which really gave my hand a serious buzz. Wasn't going to sacrifice one of my Snap-On screwdrivers. Next time, a Crapsman gets sacrificed...
). To use: just use the air chisel normally, but at reduced (at 1st) air pressure, while keeping some weight on it to prevent bit from slipping out of slot. Let it hammer for a moment, then using the handle, lightly turn the bolt out. Trick here is to *never* force the handle around. It'll turn easy when it's ready. This usually works when nothing short of a torch will. The vibration set up by the air chisel loosen rust/corrosion, & even helps w/crossthreaded bolts, up to a point. If this doesn't work, weld a nut on w/a washer underneath. Use as high as an amperage as possible, & while it's still smokin'(literally), you could either use the air chisel w/a adapter for a socket-w/a-handle-welded-on, or just use the biggest nastiest impact driver available. The only thing I don't like about impacts, is that they tend to damage the threads - both male & female - of what you're trying to separate, due to the manner in which the impacts operate. But sometimes it's better than the last alternative. Of course, there is always the EDM process, or as mentioned, drill/tap/pick-out-thread-bits if you're good enough. I've done that, too. I'd post a pic, but have no luck w/that in any forum. If someone wants to repost it, I'll send them a pic of what I'm trying to describe.FWIW.
Marcus...
fletcherson
Well-Known Member
Those are cool stories and some good busted bolt tactics as well. I wonder if the bolt is just bottomed out in the crank? I wouldn't think the threads in the crank are too damaged, once you get the bolt moving, it should come out. You can't give up on it now, you have everyone's attention and we are laying odds on who's tactic works!
Wow, those pics bring back the memories. I worked at Fleenor, back in 1973 and 1974.
Not sure whose trailer that was, as Smokin' Joe's trailer is in the background. Redd's was a long, long-time sponsor of that car. Joe and Pat are as nice a couple as you could ever hope to meet. I was always intrigued by that car, so it seemed fitting when I was working with Brian on the 6 cylinder dragster. Every now and again, Pat will post old photos of the car to her Facebook account, and it is fun to see them.
Bluegrass Dragway. Woo-hoo, Lexington, KY. That track was a PITA, because our A/ED was too long to get onto the scales. The scales were on a wee knob, in the midst of the pits, and we would have to pick up the front end of the car and drag it up, so the back wheels were on the scales. We would then set the front end down on a frame stand, so they could weigh the car.
We were only there for one race, before they closed the place down. When we were going down, the guy I ended up working for told us the best pit spot was 'under the tree'. He just laughed and told us we would understand when we got there. It wasn't hard to figure it out, because there was only one tree in the entire pit area.
The place wasn't much to look at, but that starting line had teeth. Cars were shelling rear ends, right and left. I think Joe broke on the starting line, that day. If a car broke, they would just shove it out in the grass and keep right on racing. I think we got down to four cars that day, and the starting line area looked like a city street, with broken race cars parked in the grass along the asphalt.
The guy who owned the Pocket Rocket Chevy II, that Cotton drove, was the guy who built the inline motors for Brian. Jim Headrick was his name. He owned Race Engine Design, down in Rossville, GA. Cotton drove for Brian for a couple of years, and even won back-to-back national events (Columbus and Montreal) in that car, back in 1985. Jim passed away a few years back, but the shop is still rocking and rolling.
Jim was a riot. Brian had crashed at Ohio Valley, in late 1988 or 1989. It was a Weddle car, but he took what was left to Murf and had him rebuild the car. When we got the car back, Brian wanted something completely different, so he went with this paint -
(The car was leaving the starting line on the #1 qualifying shot, in that photo.)
The photo does the car zero justice. The pink and the orange nearly glowed in the dark, it was so brilliant. Brian had Brando hand-paint all the sponsor logos on the car in a powder-blue. The only actual decal on the car was a Get Well Darrell Gwynn decal.
Anyway, when we got the car back from the painter, we made plans to go down to Bowling Green, KY, to test. Jim found out we were going to rent the track, so he made plans to drive up to see us. We were already unloaded when Jim drove up. He got out of the car, and I said howdy, but he didn't make a sound. Brian tried getting him to talk, but he was quiet as a church mouse. He kept walking around the car, looking at it, and looking at us.
Finally, after about 15 minutes of absolute silence, he very quietly asked, "Uhm, is that PINK?!?"
I was puirless.
It's a mighty good thing threads never swerve off-topic around here, aye?
It is a small world. Brian actually purchased his machine shop business in Lafayette from my uncle Joe. I started working there back in 1986 just after high school and learned the machinist trade while there, also racing open wheel dirt track cars then. Brian bought the shop about 1990 and I worked for him a number of years. I remember when he had his bad crash: he had red eyes for several days afterward.
Mike
Well-Known Member
Ha! Yes, it seems it really is a small world. Yeah, I remember the red eyes, all too well.
So you would be Tony's cousin then? I've not seen him in years. Is he still around?
So, I suspect if we don't actually know one another, we would at least recognize the other. I worked at K-Motion, during the years I raced with Brian. I left for a few months, to try working for Murf, but that didn't pan out, and I went back to work for Bob.
I don't see anything of Brian, these days. As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time I even talked with him. It's been a couple years, I suspect. About 8 years after he divorced Andrea, I dated her for a while, and apparently that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
That will be me, standing next to Brian in the first pic, and standing behind Andrea in the second.
It always stuns me to see some of these old photos. Eric was murdered a decade ago (Thanksgiving Day 2004), and Jimmy Ford (the heavy-set guy at far-right in the first photo) died a few years back. And the wee lad in the photos is my son, who is now 29 and as big as myself.
So you would be Tony's cousin then? I've not seen him in years. Is he still around?
So, I suspect if we don't actually know one another, we would at least recognize the other. I worked at K-Motion, during the years I raced with Brian. I left for a few months, to try working for Murf, but that didn't pan out, and I went back to work for Bob.
I don't see anything of Brian, these days. As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time I even talked with him. It's been a couple years, I suspect. About 8 years after he divorced Andrea, I dated her for a while, and apparently that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
That will be me, standing next to Brian in the first pic, and standing behind Andrea in the second.
It always stuns me to see some of these old photos. Eric was murdered a decade ago (Thanksgiving Day 2004), and Jimmy Ford (the heavy-set guy at far-right in the first photo) died a few years back. And the wee lad in the photos is my son, who is now 29 and as big as myself.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
I seem to remember us talking about this very subject and names like Joe Williamson, Pat David Majors, Kay Sissle, Cotton Perry and others coming up. Lot's of Ford V-8 heads sectioned up, rearranged and welded back together to get Six Cylinder Boss Heads. I think those were truly the golden years of comp racing. The guys that ended up with the Reher_Morrison Maverick talked about building a hybrid head car and Floyd Fry and I went to Antioch, Tennessee to visit David Majors. He was very gracious and allowed us to look his head over in detail. He also gave me a ton of technical information on how and where to make the cuts and the procedure to weld it back together. I really had very little experience in welding cast iron but was ready to take it on but they decided to buy the Maverick so I got a pass on a lot of work. In years later I welded a number of things much worse. Great times that will never happen again. I did hear of a pair of LS Chevy heads being cut up and made into a inline six engine but I haven't tracked it down yet. All Good and All Fun.
George
David Majors, Left Lane Joe Williamson, Right Lane
Well, Hell, Betsy, I used to run around with some of the old I6'ers.... Damn, brings back some memories!
I was working in a shop, back in the day, in Ca., and we had a hybrid 6 cyl. head done up. Was for a 300-6 altered. Should have seen it, we went to the junkyards and were buying up 351 heads up by the truck loads.
We stripped them down, hot tanked them, sandblasted the piss outta them, washed them 2 more times, then took them to the bandsaw. Cut them into sections. Then we took them to the mill and milled the saw cut square.
We then made a fixture the bolted on top and bottom to hold it somewhat straight, we cut some brass shimstock between the sections, clamped them together with a couple of long fabbed up bar clamps. snugged everything down a little at a time, tapping things square to keep it all aligned.
Then we'd stick it in a furnace to braze it together under extreme pressure of the fixture. We brought it up to temp in about 3 hours, after it was in the oven long enough to braze itself, we'd put it on a cart with firebrick all around it and threw several large sheets of asbestos over it so it'd take about 5 hours for it to cool.... It tool a full day just to fuse it together....
Well, after we decked it, cut all the seats, hand brazed things where the valvecover sealed off like Mike said....would seal. It took up the better part of a week to build 1 head....we finally got it down to about 3 days.
We'd stick the motor together, and when we'd go to fire that puppy up, we'd cover our heads and face just before it lit off. If it made it past the first few minutes, we knew we had a good head. If it wasn't good, it'd start leaking, you could hear it whistling from the leaks, and crap would start to crack....
We set some records with that sucker, too....it was nerve shattering trying to start that damn thing....I always turned my back to it that way I wouldn't catch any shrapnel in my puss.....
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Ha! Yes, it seems it really is a small world. Yeah, I remember the red eyes, all too well.
So you would be Tony's cousin then? I've not seen him in years. Is he still around?
So, I suspect if we don't actually know one another, we would at least recognize the other. I worked at K-Motion, during the years I raced with Brian. I left for a few months, to try working for Murf, but that didn't pan out, and I went back to work for Bob.
I don't see anything of Brian, these days. As a matter of fact, I can't recall the last time I even talked with him. It's been a couple years, I suspect. About 8 years after he divorced Andrea, I dated her for a while, and apparently that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
That will be me, standing next to Brian in the first pic, and standing behind Andrea in the second.
It always stuns me to see some of these old photos. Eric was murdered a decade ago (Thanksgiving Day 2004), and Jimmy Ford (the heavy-set guy at far-right in the first photo) died a few years back. And the wee lad in the photos is my son, who is now 29 and as big as myself.
Hi Mike. Yes I am Tony's cousin. He is in Northern Indiana working as an engineer, doing well. I thought I recognized your picture from another post, but I couldn't place you. Now I remember...going into K-Motion, buying parts off you guys. I was just a kid back then, chasing girls, racing cars, and dreaming of hot rods! Great photos by the way!
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Folks didn't understand when we were cringing everytime we started the motor, I always told jokes that we were gonna kill about 50 people after one of those damn things blew apart....from all the flying parts, hahaha....
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