Keepers build

[Keeper]

Progress!

Finished up the rear radius arms, fixed the clearance issue in the front axle, mounted the body and made some clearance cuts in the bed to make the body fit over the rear suspension. Next up is the brakes, I had bought a speedway brake kit, but found out it was the wrong kit for want I am doing (was not meant for bolt on steering arms). So I will be taking a trip this week to the hotrod shop a couple hours away to pick up the right kit. I know everyone loves pics so here they are:

As it sits now: (my attempt at artsy)

Another front shot:

Me trying to figure out the height of my rad shell:

Rear end finally all mounted and SQUARE to everything what a PITA that was, a 1/32nd off at the center and the tires were 3/8's out:

Rear with the tailgate installed:

A shot of the undercarriage: Kinda dark, I am working on getting a better camera!

Full size images can be found here:

http://www.netquickposse.org/photos/index.php?album=bucket&page=6

 

[Ted Brown]

Looking good, nothing wrong with your camera, it is just all that back light that is stopping the lens down, maybe shoot from the other end into a dark back ground, and then the flash should also help...

 

[Gerry]

Progress!

Finished up the rear radius arms, fixed the clearance issue in the front axle, mounted the body and made some clearance cuts in the bed to make the body fit over the rear suspension. Next up is the brakes, I had bought a speedway brake kit, but found out it was the wrong kit for want I am doing (was not meant for bolt on steering arms). So I will be taking a trip this week to the hotrod shop a couple hours away to pick up the right kit. I know everyone loves pics so here they are:

As it sits now: (my attempt at artsy)

Another front shot:

Me trying to figure out the height of my rad shell:

Rear end finally all mounted and SQUARE to everything what a PITA that was, a 1/32nd off at the center and the tires were 3/8's out:

Rear with the tailgate installed:

A shot of the undercarriage: Kinda dark, I am working on getting a better camera!

Full size images can be found here:

http://www.netquickp...m=bucket&page=6

I always worked on the top of the rad shell being at the same level as the top of the fire wall. Keeps the lines sorta 'in true'.
I like the headers, seem to suit the car.
Not sure which measurement were out on the rear end? By the way we have a number of companies over here that offer fabricated rear hubs carriers, also billet ones. Just in case you may want to change things in the future.

Gerry

 

[Keeper]

I always worked on the top of the rad shell being at the same level as the top of the fire wall. Keeps the lines sorta 'in true'.
I like the headers, seem to suit the car.
Not sure which measurement were out on the rear end? By the way we have a number of companies over here that offer fabricated rear hubs carriers, also billet ones. Just in case you may want to change things in the future.

Gerry

It was the center mount that was off, When I tacked it in it was not completely square to the frame, so it made everything crooked. When I measured the tires from kingpin to the rear I was 3/8 out between the two sides. Once I figured out where things went wrong it was an easy fix, but to do that I ended up measuring the whole car to make sure things were square to each other.

 

[Gerry]

It was the center mount that was off, When I tacked it in it was not completely square to the frame, so it made everything crooked. When I measured the tires from kingpin to the rear I was 3/8 out between the two sides. Once I figured out where things went wrong it was an easy fix, but to do that I ended up measuring the whole car to make sure things were square to each other.

That center mount is probably the biggest single 'take a breath and weld it' there is. At least for me.
I got the Kingpin to rears down to 1.5mm and thats with NO adjustment anywhere on the car. Its all hard fitted.
Best thing is you got to it before a trip down the road, which is more than I can say for my first attempt some 30 years ago. It took me ages to figure out what I had got wrong. Ignorance of youth i reckon.
Gerry

 

[Keeper]

That center mount is probably the biggest single 'take a breath and weld it' there is. At least for me.
I got the Kingpin to rears down to 1.5mm and thats with NO adjustment anywhere on the car. Its all hard fitted.
Best thing is you got to it before a trip down the road, which is more than I can say for my first attempt some 30 years ago. It took me ages to figure out what I had got wrong. Ignorance of youth i reckon.
Gerry

HAHA well I really found it on accident. I was going to hook up the rear arms that I adjusted to exactly the same size, well when I went to bolt them on, only one side fit. That's when the head scratching started. Then out came the measuring tape and all the trouble began...lol

 

[Ted Brown]

Keeper, I noticed that your front bolt-on top steering arm looks a bit on the short side?? Should be almost 7 inches long to the pivot point from the center of the king pin... The drag link will hit your tire on left turns also... Looks like...

 

[Keeper]

Keeper, I noticed that your front bolt-on top steering arm looks a bit on the short side?? Should be almost 7 inches long to the pivot point from the center of the king pin... The drag link will hit your tire on left turns also... Looks like...

Its just a touch over 6 inches. Now that I straightened the pitman arm, the link no longer hits the tire! The tie rod hits the spring shackle first, I will be making some steering stops to keep anything from hitting what it is not supposed to. Nice catch though Makes me feel better knowing I have some experienced builders critiquing the build.

If I make the steering arm longer, won't it take more turns of the wheel to go from lock to lock? I am using the stock corvair pitman arm that is only around 6 inches long. I did not want to run into the issue of having the crank the wheel a bunch to make a turn.

 

[Ted Brown]

I added another inch to my stock pitman arm, so now I have two options, I use the quicker longer mount... That is not a bad length for that arm, just looked shorter than that in that pic...

 

[Keeper]

I added another inch to my stock pitman arm, so now I have two options, I use the quicker longer mount... That is not a bad length for that arm, just looked shorter than that in that pic...

Well I re-read your post and noticed you measured from the kingpin center point. If I measure mine from the king pin center its 4 inches to the center. Guess I will revisit that arm. I had bought 3/8 stock to make a new one earlier but did not make a new one since I got the old one to clear. But now I will look at it again. (Give me something to do this week as I took it off from work )

 

[one finger john]

Keeper, in lengthening the steering arm is this so the drag link is more parallel to the frame? Would you also strive to have the drag link parallel to the radius rod? Which would you be shooting for, or better yet, what would be optimal.

 

[Keeper]

Keeper, in lengthening the steering arm is this so the drag link is more parallel to the frame? Would you also strive to have the drag link parallel to the radius rod? Which would you be shooting for, or better yet, what would be optimal.

Not really sure what would be optimal. I always thought the "parallel" was looking from the side, never even considered looking at it from the top. Guess I will go find some more reading material.

I do know the length would help with tire clearance. I have/had an issue with the draglink hitting the tire on left hand turns. It will still touch if I turn it to full lock, but I cannot see me doing that very much.

 

[Youngster]

You are right about "looking at it from the side". The key here is to consider the arcs the control rods (4-bar, bones or hairpins) travel in during the up and down motion of the suspension. In a perfect world they would make the same arc. In our world we try to get them as close as possible given the parts we chose to use.

Ron

 

[Keeper]

You are right about "looking at it from the side". The key here is to consider the arcs the control rods (4-bar, bones or hairpins) travel in during the up and down motion of the suspension. In a perfect world they would make the same arc. In our world we try to get them as close as possible given the parts we chose to use.

Ron

Thanks great to hear, mine are almost dead on parallel then:

 

[2old2fast]

Thanks great to hear, mine are almost dead on parallel then:

[/quot I'm not mistaken [and I may well be] you want your drag link to be parralel to a line from the center of the axle to the center of the radius rod rear heim. that way the arc is more "equal". anyone else???

 

[Keeper]

Okay so I took Ted's advice and made a longer steering arm, I figure he's been doing this about as long as I have been alive, so he must know a thing or two Worked out well as now I can remove the spacer on the pitman arm, move the draglink to the outside and still have tire clearance.

Couple of things I learned in this process:

1. Wait until AFTER you bend the metal to drill the holes, I had to fill and re-drill one hole as it did not bend square and was just enough off to where it would not fit on the spindle.

2. Sharpening drill bits is easy with a belt sander and a LITE touch. My larger bits won't fit in my drill doctor, so I spent some time sharpening the larger ones on the belt sander. I have a couple really trashed bits I practiced with.

Okay so on to the pics and some questions:

The new one is a little over 2 inches longer at the holes.

Now for the questions. As discussed a couple posts above, I am looking for an answer to the question, What should the drag link be parallel to? Should it be parallel to the top bar on the hairpins? or should it be parallel to the bungie cord in the pic below? (it runs from the spring mount to the frame mount)

I have enough room so I can bend the arm to make things line up the way they are supposed to.

 

[old round fart]

Make it parallel to a line between the rear radius rod bolt to a point in the middle of the front radius rod ends. That is the arch the axle makes when it goes up and down.

 

[one finger john]

I would imagine that if you wanted to do it right you would remove the front spring, leaving everything else hooked up, and watch for parallelism between the drag link and the top bar of the radius rod as they move thru suspension travel. My only question would be with having the car on two different planes (i.e. having the front end out on the driveway while the rear end is in the garage. Ideally this should have been investigated while the frame was still on a frame table. You have the rims and tires mounted so you can also check for interference with the suspension pieces as the tire goes through its steering & suspension movement.

You have done a fine job of planning & construction so sweating the details now will just make it better. John

P.S. Dave is right, but I think using the top bar (which connects to the heim) and watching the axle/drag link/radius rod movement as it goes thru the suspension arc will be good enough for government work.

 

[2old2fast]

Parralel to "bungie"cord is as close as your gonna get it.

dave

 

[old round fart]

All you need to do is get them close. With the radius rod and drag link being two different lengths they will never swing the exact arch. With as little suspension movement these cars get, it doesn't make a lot of difference. Look at a Total T and notice how far the radius rod and drag link are from being parallel and there are tons of Total cars not having problems. I don't think you will have a problem, so bolt on the new arm and procede with your build!