overheating problem
- Thread starter oino
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old round fart
Well-Known Member
I hear electric is getting more popular! LOL
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Sometimes its best just to walk away for a while, then come back and you'll see 4 or 5 things wrong. Its simple or it wouldn't start up so good and stay running. On EFI's I've seen it be in the distrubutor before, the computer will run ahead to comphensate, it'll load it, then the computer will yank it back....making it sound like a lawn mower....
Its almost licked there, don't let it sit too long, the warranty will be out on the stuff....then if its a component of the EFI, you'll be screwed....
Its almost licked there, don't let it sit too long, the warranty will be out on the stuff....then if its a component of the EFI, you'll be screwed....
Ok... Was out cleaning my tools up, putting things away, and getting the garage swept up.
Screaming Metal: You're right. "Warranties" They will run out. DAMN IT.
So.... what the hell I'll check the plugs.
cyl. 8 & 5 are black, and wet covered in oil.
Valve guides?
No matter what, I'm pulling the heads. Should have done that a week ago. It's a learning experience.
Screaming Metal: You're right. "Warranties" They will run out. DAMN IT.
So.... what the hell I'll check the plugs.
cyl. 8 & 5 are black, and wet covered in oil.
Valve guides?
No matter what, I'm pulling the heads. Should have done that a week ago. It's a learning experience.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Well Chris, oil on your plugs are caused by these things:
1. oil being sucked in thru the intake where the intake joins the head
2. one of the umbrella shields in top of the valve guide improperly installed, left out or wore out, ie, used part got thrown in
3. rings not seating because of pcv problems, motor bores not honed correctly, etc.
Were these the same 2 plugs that were wet earlier with the intake difficulties?
Well, heres what you need to do, pull both your valve covers, put on a couple with the tops cut out, start the motor, and make sure the oil drainback holes are open so the oil doesn't stand to the rear of the head. Also, with the motor running, make sure the guides on the rear 2 cylinders aren't sloppy. Your not worried about exhaust valves, just the intakes.
Also, make sure theres a seal on top of the valve guides. Being bargain basement specials, they might've accidently left them out.
Once we get the Oil off the plugs, then we'll continue on with the backfiring stuff....but I think its in the EFI, probably a bad sensor or connection...or timing
Ron is right! Hang Tough Kid! Your gonna make helluva Mechanic!
1. oil being sucked in thru the intake where the intake joins the head
2. one of the umbrella shields in top of the valve guide improperly installed, left out or wore out, ie, used part got thrown in
3. rings not seating because of pcv problems, motor bores not honed correctly, etc.
Were these the same 2 plugs that were wet earlier with the intake difficulties?
Well, heres what you need to do, pull both your valve covers, put on a couple with the tops cut out, start the motor, and make sure the oil drainback holes are open so the oil doesn't stand to the rear of the head. Also, with the motor running, make sure the guides on the rear 2 cylinders aren't sloppy. Your not worried about exhaust valves, just the intakes.
Also, make sure theres a seal on top of the valve guides. Being bargain basement specials, they might've accidently left them out.
Once we get the Oil off the plugs, then we'll continue on with the backfiring stuff....but I think its in the EFI, probably a bad sensor or connection...or timing
Ron is right! Hang Tough Kid! Your gonna make helluva Mechanic!
I know that the intake can't be leaking. No one has that bad of luck.
Has to be something with the heads.
I think before I waste more money trying to fix other things. I'm going to start fresh.
Pull it all apart. Clean it all. Clean it again. Then slowly, step by step put it back together.
Has to be something with the heads.
I think before I waste more money trying to fix other things. I'm going to start fresh.
Pull it all apart. Clean it all. Clean it again. Then slowly, step by step put it back together.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Chris, if you have already pulled the heads, take them to the machine shop, have the machinist look at the seals on the intake guides, tell him what the motor was doing and have them look em over good. Take the intake up there too so he can look it over.
At least that way, you'll pretty well know theres no problems there....
You should not be having all these difficulties with new heads and new intake....somethings not right here. Its running good except of the popping back, correct?
At least that way, you'll pretty well know theres no problems there....
You should not be having all these difficulties with new heads and new intake....somethings not right here. Its running good except of the popping back, correct?
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Screaming Metal
Active Member
Hahaha....its funny you say that, theres the new Electric drag racing Assoc. now....I was laughing and making fun of some of them not long ago...saw a digger run a 7 flat, electric now. Batteries. I quit laughing....
A friend of mine up in Canada is building a altered....will be interesting to see it run.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
When you pull your intake, look at your hold down bolts and your intake gaskets. Look to see if there was anyway you could be pulling oil past the intake bolts when alot of oil is standing in the rear of the valvecovers. Just a possibility.
For 5 and 8 to be wet, your sucking oil somewhere, the most likely place is intake valve guide seals, the least likely place is past the intake bolts. Remember what Mike said...
Suspect Everything, Trust Nothing! Could possibly be cracked rings, but a leakdown test would have to be preformed. Though the steady pressure in the cylinders points elsewhere.
What is the exact cylinder pressures? Did you write these down? If not, next time, write these down.... 5 or 8 PSI diff. in cyl. pressure can mean diff. things....
You've gotta be like Sherlocke Holmes....looking for the clues. Look everywhere....
For 5 and 8 to be wet, your sucking oil somewhere, the most likely place is intake valve guide seals, the least likely place is past the intake bolts. Remember what Mike said...
Suspect Everything, Trust Nothing! Could possibly be cracked rings, but a leakdown test would have to be preformed. Though the steady pressure in the cylinders points elsewhere.
What is the exact cylinder pressures? Did you write these down? If not, next time, write these down.... 5 or 8 PSI diff. in cyl. pressure can mean diff. things....
You've gotta be like Sherlocke Holmes....looking for the clues. Look everywhere....
AH OK. That is good.
Could we just get the springs off with out pulling the heads? It would save a lot of work and a lot of money. Removing the springs is not that big of a deal. At least the 2 intake ones on 5 an 8, that's fouling the plugs.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Yea Chris, Rons right, if you felt comfortable with it, you COULD pull the intake springs on the motor without pulling the heads, to look at the guide seals and all. Its a thought, and would save some money....could save you a couple of hundred....gaskets, oil, filter. antifreeze....all that stuff adds up after a while.
The air fitting is cheap and the spring compressor, hell, last time I bought one was back in 2002, and it wasn't expensive from SnapOn. The ones I've seen at the AutoPartsStores were under $20....
But, since you said you were gonna pull the heads anyway and redo everything....
Theres a air fitting you install where your spark plug goes, then you get a spring compressor. Then you air up at the air fitting, the pressure in the cylinder holds the valve in place while you take off your spring and check the seals. I think O'Reillys and the like has tools they'll let you use, as long as you bring them back. As much stuff as you've got from these AutoParts stores, I think they'd let you borrow theirs....
The air fitting is cheap and the spring compressor, hell, last time I bought one was back in 2002, and it wasn't expensive from SnapOn. The ones I've seen at the AutoPartsStores were under $20....
But, since you said you were gonna pull the heads anyway and redo everything....
Theres a air fitting you install where your spark plug goes, then you get a spring compressor. Then you air up at the air fitting, the pressure in the cylinder holds the valve in place while you take off your spring and check the seals. I think O'Reillys and the like has tools they'll let you use, as long as you bring them back. As much stuff as you've got from these AutoParts stores, I think they'd let you borrow theirs....
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Screaming Metal
Active Member
I bet if Ron and I were out and on the road at a T-Bucket meet, we could pull the covers and change out a seal or a valve spring in about, oh, I'd say about 15 minutes, if we had the parts on hand.
Then we'd have to drink a beer then use the hand cleaner which would take longer than the job itself....
Doesn't happen often, but when I seat the valve locs, sometimes one tries to sprout wings and fly....I tap the retainer with a small hammer, using the handle, to seat the locs....
Then we'd have to drink a beer then use the hand cleaner which would take longer than the job itself....
Doesn't happen often, but when I seat the valve locs, sometimes one tries to sprout wings and fly....I tap the retainer with a small hammer, using the handle, to seat the locs....
Screaming Metal
Active Member
When you go to troubleshoot this thing again, do yourself a favor Chris, and use some Oil Dye....that way you can SEE HOW the oil is getting into those cylinders.
That Dye will leave a trail....
We had a Harley Motor we were chasing a oil leak like that. After using the Dye, I saw it was leaking past the outside of the valveguide and the head itself. I pressure tested it and it showed up positive....
A real long stroke motor sucks a huge amount of air thru the intake track....that thing was smoking its butt off....
You need the visual help to detect it on the SBC....
That Dye will leave a trail....
We had a Harley Motor we were chasing a oil leak like that. After using the Dye, I saw it was leaking past the outside of the valveguide and the head itself. I pressure tested it and it showed up positive....
A real long stroke motor sucks a huge amount of air thru the intake track....that thing was smoking its butt off....
You need the visual help to detect it on the SBC....
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man you guys. I know what your saying I could do that. I have spring tool, used to have the air fitting, but lost it. BUT....I think spending more money on other stuff and still having to pull the heads would be a bad. Basically thats what I've been doing.
I've bought 4 sets of intake gaskets now, 2 things of rtv, 2 sets of plugs, 1 can of acetone, then a can of thinner, oil stuff, and 5 gals of anti.. Don't get me started on the rags.
SO, I just went with the heads. I got them off. To me it looks like oil was leaking out at the top where Mike said it could.
I'm going to have the head guy clean and check them. It's only $50.
Man that manifold was on their this time.
Screaming Metal
Active Member
Well, could be sucking oil past the intake gaskets again, or the umbrellas on the intakes, theres a slim chance he might be picking it up at the PCV if there was a pushrod and rocker lined up perfectly, shooting directly at the PCV valve. He would have to have his Vacuum line plumbed into the #5 and 8 runners though. C
I don't think he's unseated the rings or washed them out. But theres definitely a leak somewhere though. Could be a low spot on the intake face on the heads. Thats why I'm interested in him taking his heads and intake in to the machine shop. If its a loose guide, a valve stem seal, low spot on the intake surface or on the heads themselves, they can find it and fix it. My guess is its still sucking oil thru the intake gaskets from the lifter valley.
Some heads have had a problem with the intake faces being slightly out, vortecs, but that is unlikely. Yes, we know that there was not a problem when the motor had a carb, the old intake and the heads.
Regardless if the motor ran good, with it sucking oil on 5 and 8, its only a matter of time till it fouled those 2 out and raw fuel started washing the oil outta those cylinders. Once the cylinders are clean, the back firing or popping should show itself pretty fast. I hate this jumping all over the place.
Might need a deck of cards, some beer and peanuts on this one though....hahaha....
I would like to also know if the block has been decked, and the amount.
And also on some heads theres a missing manifold bolt....
I don't think he's unseated the rings or washed them out. But theres definitely a leak somewhere though. Could be a low spot on the intake face on the heads. Thats why I'm interested in him taking his heads and intake in to the machine shop. If its a loose guide, a valve stem seal, low spot on the intake surface or on the heads themselves, they can find it and fix it. My guess is its still sucking oil thru the intake gaskets from the lifter valley.
Some heads have had a problem with the intake faces being slightly out, vortecs, but that is unlikely. Yes, we know that there was not a problem when the motor had a carb, the old intake and the heads.
Regardless if the motor ran good, with it sucking oil on 5 and 8, its only a matter of time till it fouled those 2 out and raw fuel started washing the oil outta those cylinders. Once the cylinders are clean, the back firing or popping should show itself pretty fast. I hate this jumping all over the place.
Might need a deck of cards, some beer and peanuts on this one though....hahaha....
I would like to also know if the block has been decked, and the amount.
And also on some heads theres a missing manifold bolt....
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