Complete Rewire Project

[Indycars]

Honey do, got in the way of getting this done sooner.

I have it wired and believe it to be correct. The Torque Converter locks up when I press
the monetary button down, but as soon I as lift it un-locks. Also the radiator fan starts running
when I press the button and stays on unless I remove all power from the system. Just turning
key off does not stop the fan. Looks like I need a blocking diode in the wiring.

I'm going to go back and review my new wiring to confirm it's agrees with @PotvinGuy diagram.

 

[PotvinGuy]

The fan comes on!? How is that even connected to this TC subsystem?
Your big diagram shows the fan circuit is completely isolated, i.e. the Flexalite box does it all. The only common element is the switched power fuse panel and I can't see how that would have any effect. There should be +12 at all fuses.

 

[Indycars]

The fan comes on!? How is that even connected to this TC subsystem?

I just tried it again, No fan this time. Not sure what happened other than the fan did
come on. I have a fan override switch in the console, maybe I did something without
knowing.

There should be +12 at all fuses.

I verified that +12v exist on the two fuses I used with a meter.

I went back thru your drawing and didn't find any mistakes on my wiring. I have the
jumper wire going from pin 85 to pin 87 on the relay. I thought that was to make the
relay latch until I step on the brake.

Any ideas why the relay is not latching ? The TC locks only when the button is held down.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Verify +12 on pin 86. Verify pin 30 has a good ground. Does the LED go on with the TC? Feel the relay when you press the button to verify it is operating (a bad relay would match your symptoms). Swap in another relay if needed. Take two aspirins and call me in the morning.

 

[Indycars]

Verify +12 on pin 86.

Yes, without pressing the button there is 12v on pin 86.

Verify pin 30 has a good ground.

Less than 0.1 ohms. Testing from pin 30 to the fuse panel ground and also to the battery negative post.

Does the LED go on with the TC?

Not sure there but I would assume so. It comes on when every I press the button with the
key in the on position while testing in the garage.

Feel the relay when you press the button to verify it is operating (a bad relay would match your symptoms). Swap in another relay if needed.

The TC locks up when the button is depressed and unlocks when I release the button.
Does that not prove the relay is good ?

 

[Neshkoro]

I’m no electronics genius but don’t you need a stop light switch that has a NO and NC set of contacts. Most don’t. NO will turn the brake lights on when you step on the pedal and NC will kick out the lock up converter when you step on the pedal.

 

[PotvinGuy]

The TC locks up when the button is depressed and unlocks when I release the button.
Does that not prove the relay is good ?

No, the TC could just be getting ground thru the button; you could remove the relay and still get the same behavior. If the wiring is all correct then I'm suspecting the relay. They're not exactly mil-spec parts. I've had some bad ones. Even if it feels and sounds like it is working the contacts could be bad. Try a new one and RSVP.

 

[PotvinGuy]

You know, I test relays before using them. Put 12v on the coil and check contact operation with an ohmmeter.

 

[Indycars]

I’m no electronics genius but don’t you need a stop light switch that has a NO and NC set of contacts.

I do have the NC contacts on the brake switch. You're just getting old and don't remember,
it's in my first post on page 10.

 

[Indycars]

Put 12v on the coil and check contact operation with an ohmmeter.

That is what I did, connected 12v across the coil (85 to 86) and then with a meter (87 to 30)
the resistance went to zero. Tested several times by removing and applying 12v, each time
the resistance went to zero.

Maybe you can gleam something from the photo below. It's certainly possible that I didn't
get from your drawing to the physical wiring correctly.

I really really appreciate your help !!!


.

 

[Neshkoro]

I am getting old, Indycars! Just wanted to make sure you weren’t missing something.

 

[PotvinGuy]

Nice pic. I'm guessing you meant 86 goes to brake switch and then +12, not ground, right?
Now does the relay operate when you press the button? Can you feel and hear it operate?
I'm not familiar with that relay board. But it is the one on your page 10, and I will relook that for any possible problem. Stay tuned.

 

[Indycars]

I'm guessing you meant 86 goes to brake switch and then +12, not ground, right?

Yes, that is correct, it goes to the fuse panel and therefore 12v. My mistake. Below is the corrected photo.

Now does the relay operate when you press the button? Can you feel and hear it operate?

I wired 12v direct to the coil, so no switch involved during the test. Yes I can definitely
hear the relay and verified the contacts were making with a meter.
.

 

[Indycars]

To text the push button contacts, I removed the blue wire coming from the push button and
going to ground. See photo below. Then I connected a meter to the black wire and the blue wire. Push on the
button and meter went to zero ohms.

Note: I joined the green and black wires of the switch inside the console, then ran one
black wire to pin 85. In the photo above it's labeled black and green wire.

 

[PotvinGuy]

So the relay operates when you have the button pressed, but then the relay drops out when you release the button? Put your voltmeter on 87 and see what it reads with the button not pressed and then pressed. Should read +12 not pressed and 0 when pressed. And in a perfect world when you release the button it should then stay at 0 until you hit the brake. Does it?

Double check the jumper from 85 to 87. It is needed to get the latch action. I've wiggled wires that look good but aren't quite crimped or in the hole.

I checked the relay board and it looks fine. You're not using the common control so it has no effect.

Keep the faith. We shall overcome.

 

[Indycars]

The trans will have to be in 4th gear before I can push the button to lock up the TC. I might be
able to put the rear axle on stands and run the car until I reach 4rh gear and then test.

 

[Indycars]

Should read +12 not pressed and 0 when pressed. And in a perfect world when you release the button it should then stay at 0 until you hit the brake. Does it?

The meter is across ground and pin 87. Once I get into 4th gear and press the button, the
meter goes from 12v to zero and the TC locks up. But when I release the button, the voltage
goes back to 12v and TC unlocks. The meter will go to zero any time I press the button,
which seems to correct with the jumper connection. Also the light comes on any time the
button is pressed.

Double check the jumper from 85 to 87. It is needed to get the latch action.

I put the meter across the jumper wire (85 to 87) it read 0 ohms, then I started yanking on
the wire. The meter continues to read a STEADY 0 ohms.

I tried the above on jack stands, but the trans would not go into 4th gear. I suppose it had to
do with no load on the trans. So I did the test above on I-40.

Keep the faith. We shall overcome.

Just a matter of time, but I only have a few years left ! hehehe !!!

 

[Indycars]

Could a diode on the board be blocking the jumper wire from functioning ?

 

[PotvinGuy]

I have it! Here's the deal: typical auto relays like this one:

...have no polarity. That is, the coil doesn't care which terminal is +12 and which is ground. BUT the relays on your board do care; there are diodes on the board across the coils to damp spikes when the relay is deenergized, so 85 has to be +12 and 86 has to be ground. The other 3 relays on your board are hooked up this way. But we have the TC relay reversed! So the diode is bypassing the relay coil so it won't stay energized as soon as you release the button. And I'll bet a beer (kindly supplied by ORF) that the red LED doesn't go on either. We need to swap the wires to 85 and 86, so it looks like this:

You should be able to just swap the wires at the screw connectors. Confirm that the red LED goes on and stays on when you press and release the button, and the button LED stays on, indicating that the TC is locked. Try it and RSVP.

 

[Indycars]

Tremendous thanks !!!

Will be all over it tomorrow if family don't get in the way. Daughter is coming in
for
mother's day, it's a surprise.

And I'll bet a beer (kindly supplied by ORF) that the red LED doesn't go on either.

Don't hold your breath, I've been to his house and have never seen a beer !!! LOL !!!

Do your foresee any problems with my AQ-1 data acquisition device when operational
during the TC lockup. Normally I don't use the TC lockup while collecting data, but I
wonder if voltage spikes in the system might cause some problems.