My first T build.

[Zandoz]

I should of added that the car was one that Nick Conti built and was featured in a magazine I believe. It was based on the idea of building a cheap but good looking bucket. If only I could buy a hood that would fit! lol I have some ideas that involve a lot of pain staking work to build a fiberglass hood. I am thinking of asking around at local hot rod shops to see if they could form one out of sheet metal for me. Maybe a college with courses in this type of work would be interested in doing it as well. Otherwise I wonder about building it out of light ply wood using the cowl and radiator support as templates for formers and cutting light plywood to fit. Of course it would all be just a little undersized and then glassed top and bottom. Also considered buying an English wheel and trying my hand at it. May build the car with provision for the hood and do hood after car is on the road. As it stands that hood seems like a daunting task to tackle.

I have a similar quandry with the build I'm planning. In my case I'll be needing an opening or scoop in the top for the air cleaner...and the ability to shape the front to conform to the track roadster nose I'm planning on. Most of the hoods I've encountered are for '26/'27 Ts, which are of no use. But I have encountered 2 pieces that may be adaptable. The first, a fiberglass '23 style hood with a cowl induction style scoop, from Spirit... http://shop.spiritcars.com/body-fiberglass-parts/23t-cowl-hood.html The other is a 1 piece steel top only '23 style hood from Langs... https://www.modeltford.com/item/N141-23-25.aspx

Right now, there is a 3rd option I'm toying with...what I call "Spats". Two separate hood sections, separated down the center wide enough for a scoop to fit through. The two pieces should be easier to form from steel or aluminum.

 

[fletcherson]

I should of added that the car was one that Nick Conti built and was featured in a magazine I believe. It was based on the idea of building a cheap but good looking bucket. If only I could buy a hood that would fit! lol I have some ideas that involve a lot of pain staking work to build a fiberglass hood. I am thinking of asking around at local hot rod shops to see if they could form one out of sheet metal for me. Maybe a college with courses in this type of work would be interested in doing it as well. Otherwise I wonder about building it out of light ply wood using the cowl and radiator support as templates for formers and cutting light plywood to fit. Of course it would all be just a little undersized and then glassed top and bottom. Also considered buying an English wheel and trying my hand at it. May build the car with provision for the hood and do hood after car is on the road. As it stands that hood seems like a daunting task to tackle.

You could cut plywood forms that duplicate the cowl and the radiator shell, then string them at the correct length and that would allow you to fab a couple more for the center. Then use a flexible substrate to cover those and provide a form to lay glass over. I don't think it would be horrible, just time consuming. Just brainstorming, lol! It would be ideal to build it in reverse, so the forms are cut to fit the top of the cowl, etc. then you could glass from the bottom and provide a better top finish. It's easy in my mind!

 

[RatchetRob]

The problem I saw with any of the hoods I came across including the one from spirit is there is no way of knowing for sure if it would be close enough to adapt without purchasing one. If I lived closer to Spirit I would just take it over there and see how it looks. With so many variables in placement of body and grill shell and coupled with the fact that most do not want hoods, I can see why not many are available.
As for the plywood templates, that is what I was thinking of doing. I was thinking of using luan plywood to cover the formers. Obviously with the change in radius from the front to rear of hood you just can't simply wrap plywood around it. So I was figuring on cutting the plywood in strips. Of course this presents the problem of not having a smooth surface to glass.
To me even using two pieces requires manipulating the metal with something like an English wheel. But then again I have never tried it. lol Maybe the trick would be to form both ends and then cut the piece. Having only 1/2 the radius to contend with might not be as bad. but still think you would have to cut the piece after bending. Seems if you cut a rectangle and then bend it with two separate radius ends it would not be straight. Then to bend the other side and get them to match would be rather hard. But of course I am typing all this without having my morning cup of wake the hell up. lol

 

[meangreen]

OK, guys. Don't overthink this hood thing and let it whip you. I made the hood for my Track-T out of some old steel shelving. You can read the details and see the pics in my build thread over on Club Hotrod:
http://www.clubhotrod.com/hot-rod-talk/30400-another-build-thread-yep-my-track-style-t.html . You may have to sign up to see the pictures, but it's free... Anyway, like most T-buckets, my body and nose are fiberglass. I added an aluminum lip to the firewall to support the hood. The nose has a steel support structure that it mounts to and provides the support for the front of the hood. The hood is made in four pieces; two top halves and two side panels. The sides bolt on and the top is hinged in the center.

If you read the story in my build thread, you can get all the details on making the patterns, cutting the panels, reinforcing the edges, installing the hinge and latches, etc., but here is the short version: I first tried bending one top piece over a pipe a little at a time. That left a mess of ridges, so I threw it in the scrap pile. I tried forming the second piece by wrapping it around a telephone pole. That was even worse, so I threw it in the scrap pile, too. A friend suggested using aluminum and forming it around my oxygen tank; he supposedly did one that way before and it worked... Meantime, a couple weeks later, Harbor Freight had a sale on their English Wheels. I always wanted one, so I bought one. As soon as I put it together I needed to try it on something, so I got one of the discarded hood sides off the trash pile and started "wheeling" it. I had never used an English wheel before and had no real idea what I was doing, but pretty soon I had a decent looking hood half. I got the other piece off the trash pile and "wheeled" it, too, and they are the ones on the car now! I added the fairing around the carburetor later.

Sorry I hijacked your thread, Smokey, but I just thought somebody might find this helpful.

 

[Zandoz]

The problem I saw with any of the hoods I came across including the one from spirit is there is no way of knowing for sure if it would be close enough to adapt without purchasing one. If I lived closer to Spirit I would just take it over there and see how it looks. With so many variables in placement of body and grill shell and coupled with the fact that most do not want hoods, I can see why not many are available.

It seems to me that the cowl ends of off the shelf hoods should be pretty close...and the shell end would almost certainly need trimming to length and reshapiong. Of the two, I think the Lang hood would be the easiest to modify <shrug>

As for the plywood templates, that is what I was thinking of doing. I was thinking of using luan plywood to cover the formers. Obviously with the change in radius from the front to rear of hood you just can't simply wrap plywood around it. So I was figuring on cutting the plywood in strips. Of course this presents the problem of not having a smooth surface to glass. To me even using two pieces requires manipulating the metal with something like an English wheel. But then again I have never tried it. lol Maybe the trick would be to form both ends and then cut the piece. Having only 1/2 the radius to contend with might not be as bad. but still think you would have to cut the piece after bending. Seems if you cut a rectangle and then bend it with two separate radius ends it would not be straight. Then to bend the other side and get them to match would be rather hard. But of course I am typing all this without having my morning cup of wake the hell up. lol

My plan right now for making forms is a clam shell arrangement...both male and female forms. At least 3 sets of male and female ribs, covered in bending plywood (also known as Curve-Ply, Flexply, Wacky Wood and Wiggle wood). The male and femal halves would be hinged along the center line. The sheet metal/aluminum would be slowly pressed between the forms. As you said, the pieces would have to me trimmed after bending.

 

[smokeyco75]

No worries Meangreen, I am enjoying the information.

 

[meangreen]

Zandoz - Your idea isn't bad, but if you make the form exactly to the shape you want the finished piece, it won't come out that way! Metal has a characteristic called elasticity or elastic limit. Different metals have different elasticity, but until you exceed the elastic limit, the metal springs back. Therefore, you have to bend the metal a little further than the shape you want the finished piece to be. One method is to make a wood "buck" (like the bottom half of your form) and then use other means (slip-roller, English wheel, planishing hammer, etc.) to form the metal until it fits the buck perfectly. A buck is good for complex shapes or if you are making more than one piece that need to match, but for one relatively simple piece it will take you longer to build a buck than to just bend the metal freehand around something and then tweak and trim it to fit... However you decide to proceed, let us know what you end up with and how you do it.

 

[fletcherson]

It seems to me that the cowl ends of off the shelf hoods should be pretty close...and the shell end would almost certainly need trimming to length and reshapiong. Of the two, I think the Lang hood would be the easiest to modify <shrug>



My plan right now for making forms is a clam shell arrangement...both male and female forms. At least 3 sets of male and female ribs, covered in bending plywood (also known as Curve-Ply, Flexply, Wacky Wood and Wiggle wood). The male and femal halves would be hinged along the center line. The sheet metal/aluminum would be slowly pressed between the forms. As you said, the pieces would have to me trimmed after bending.

View attachment 10796

You might try vinyl sheets for your form. It may be a little more flexible than wood and leave a smoother finish if you are going to try the glass route.

 

[texasboy112]

Good Luck with the car; you'll love every minute...

 

[Zandoz]

Zandoz - Your idea isn't bad, but if you make the form exactly to the shape you want the finished piece, it won't come out that way! Metal has a characteristic called elasticity or elastic limit. Different metals have different elasticity, but until you exceed the elastic limit, the metal springs back. Therefore, you have to bend the metal a little further than the shape you want the finished piece to be. One method is to make a wood "buck" (like the bottom half of your form) and then use other means (slip-roller, English wheel, planishing hammer, etc.) to form the metal until it fits the buck perfectly. A buck is good for complex shapes or if you are making more than one piece that need to match, but for one relatively simple piece it will take you longer to build a buck than to just bend the metal freehand around something and then tweak and trim it to fit... However you decide to proceed, let us know what you end up with and how you do it.

Yeah, spring-back would be expected. But I'm not expecting the pieces to lay in place perfectly right out of the buck. I just want the buck to get to the shape and act as a template for subsequent cutting and folding the edges. My experience is that after the edges are folded double, a second time in the buck will leave the piece conforming better, but still not perfect. My plan is to locate the inside edge of each spat with a piano style hinge, and the outside edge with 3 or 4 quarter-turn fasteners. I'm hoping that will hold the spats to the intended shape. <shrug>

The time it takes to build a buck is no issue for me. I have the time, and it's work I enjoy. Jig & Buck are good friends.

 

[Zandoz]

You might try vinyl sheets for your form. It may be a little more flexible than wood and leave a smoother finish if you are going to try the glass route.

Hmmmm...sheet styrene may indeed work well, and would likely be cheaper than the bending plywood.

 

[meangreen]

After I shaped my hood and trimmed it to fit, I welded 1/2" square tubing (slightly curved) to both halves along the top seam and then welded the piano hinge to the tubing. That made it very strong. I reinforced the bottom edge with 1/8" x 1" flat steel. It's held shut with two toolbox latches on each side. If you flip through my build thread over on Club Hotrod you can see pics of how I did it.

 

[fletcherson]

Hmmmm...sheet styrene may indeed work well, and would likely be cheaper than the bending plywood.

I don't recall the name of it, but there is a plywood that is designed for forming concrete radius and is flexible also. I think the vinyl would be easier to work and give a smoother finish.

 

[EX JUNK]

I don't recall the name of it, but there is a plywood that is designed for forming concrete radius and is flexible also. I think the vinyl would be easier to work and give a smoother finish.

I've used that. All I ever knew it as was "bendi board". My son worked for a staging company and he introduced me to the stuff. It had a series of saw kurfs that alternated on both sides of the panel. It could be had with the cuts on the 4' width or the 8' width.

 

[fletcherson]

I've used that. All I ever knew it as was "bendi board". My son worked for a staging company and he introduced me to the stuff. It had a series of saw kurfs that alternated on both sides of the panel. It could be had with the cuts on the 4' width or the 8' width.

It has the ply's constructed so the grain is in the same direction. It is strong in one direction and flexible in the other. We used it for forming round curbs and such, but that's been a few years back. There are a couple variations of it. There are some very flexible vinyl products available. My father in law used it to make templates for painting parking lots and it comes in various thickness and sizes. It would allow compound curves without streaks or ridges because there is no grain and it could be heated if needed to help persuade it to do what is required. It would also be easy to remove from the glass due to the flexibility. I am speculating here to be clear. I have not used it for glass.

 

[Zandoz]

I hadn't thought of it until now, but I'm thinking I could use my buck setup to compress and form a fiberglass under aluminum sandwich. I have a roll of 15" wide aluminum (I can't remember the gauge), intended for making/wrapping exterior house trim. The aluminum is too thin to use on it's own, but my idea is to coat the bottom buck with release agent, lay over several layers of glass cloth and/or mat. Then top it off with a sheet of the aluminum and clamp the upper buck over it all. Once cured and out of the buck, the edges of the aluminum would be folded over to give finished edges.

Opinions?

 

[fletcherson]

I hadn't thought of it until now, but I'm thinking I could use my buck setup to compress and form a fiberglass under aluminum sandwich. I have a roll of 15" wide aluminum (I can't remember the gauge), intended for making/wrapping exterior house trim. The aluminum is too thin to use on it's own, but my idea is to coat the bottom buck with release agent, lay over several layers of glass cloth and/or mat. Then top it off with a sheet of the aluminum and clamp the upper buck over it all. Once cured and out of the buck, the edges of the aluminum would be folded over to give finished edges.

Opinions?

Personally, if using glass, I would not expose any aluminum, just layer and finish it. Maybe use some thing embedded if it needed to be reinforced. I would just make one side form and lay glass mat in it and layer until reaching the desired thickness.

 

[smokeyco75]

Sorry to change the subject, lol just kidding folks. I am enjoying the information too.

Quick update, ordered some parts from Ron as well as Speedway. I now have everything I need to finish the front suspension. I have two brackets I will have to fabricate myself for the spring and I will be making shock mounts to use pinto/mustang I I shocks. Next will be saving for my front brake kit so I can start rolling this pig. Have a sad face though because I found a bent pushrod upon removing the valve cover from the 454. Valve seems to move freely and no obvious damage otherwise.

 

[fletcherson]

Sorry to change the subject, lol just kidding folks. I am enjoying the information too.

Quick update, ordered some parts from Ron as well as Speedway. I now have everything I need to finish the front suspension. I have two brackets I will have to fabricate myself for the spring and I will be making shock mounts to use pinto/mustang I I shocks. Next will be saving for my front brake kit so I can start rolling this pig. Have a sad face though because I found a bent pushrod upon removing the valve cover from the 454. Valve seems to move freely and no obvious damage otherwise.

If the timing was too advanced, it could have caused a bent push rod. Is it an intake valve? If that's the case the other real concern would be the lifter and cam lobe if it was ran that way.

 

[Zandoz]

Personally, if using glass, I would not expose any aluminum, just layer and finish it. Maybe use some thing embedded if it needed to be reinforced. I would just make one side form and lay glass mat in it and layer until reaching the desired thickness.

My thought was that the aluminum outer skin would eliminate the need for gelcoat (that I have zero experience with) and other surface finishing...and it would be stronger than fiberglass alone in the folded over edges where the piano hinges and quarter turn fasteners would be attached. <shrug>

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I return it to it's rightful owner.