My First T-Bucket Build

[fletcherson]

Metallic or metal flake paint is difficult to resolve runs in. Personally, I would consider scuffing it to make it flat and spraying a new top coat of paint. You will have a ton of time and money in materials to cut and buff and will likely have funky results due to exposing the flakes. (Just my opinion based on past experience) You know you can clear coat single stage as well, so if you want a mirror finish with metallic or flake and can't get it to flow out, you may consider clear coating it to provide material to wet sand and buff without cutting into the flake. I haven't used that particular brand of paint, but have used many urethane paints. If it's running, you likely have too slow of reducer, too cold temp, too much fluid flow, too little air to atomize the paint, or it was recoated too soon or applied too slow and heavy, or simply the wrong fluid tip on your gun. Paint doesn't go on like primer and metallic or flake is even harder due to the pattern and the weight of the metallic or flake material. It takes practice and trial and error to get the art of painting down and it's still somewhat of a voodoo ordeal...don't feel bad that it didn't turn out exactly as desired... I've seen life long painters throw twelve hundred dollar spray guns across the shop over runs, lol... seriously, check the recoat time and see what the window is first, but the next coat should cover well and flow. It shouldn't take as much material to cover. I usually turn the flow down and mist everything to apply a tach coat after cutting in, once it cures to the very sticky stage, I adjust the fluid flow to allow a medium coat and usually apply two medium coats, the second wetter than the first, but just wet enough to allow it to flow. Too fast of reducer will cause orange peel, too slow will allow it to run. Just practice on something to get the pattern and fluid flow set. Also, heat lamps are your friend, but not too close. Get the body warm before spraying so the paint will cure quicker. If you decide to try to sand and buff, you only sand one direction at a time with each grit, so the subsequent pass removes the previous scratches. Start with 800 or so and work up to 1200 or 1500, then start buffing. If you get into the metallic early, it's over, time to respray or it will never look right, the pattern will be off. You can add a few drops of dawn to the water to help lube the paper to prevent build up. You can also use a soft squeegee to wipe accrossed the sanded areas to show the sanding scratches and illuminate runs or low spots. I personally hate wet sanding... lol. It's looking good! Keep after it.

 

[409T]

You can sand it with just about anything up to 400 grit to get out the runs. Using finer sand paper than that will just burnish the paint and the next coat may not adhere properly. After sanding out the runs you should spray another coat of color (more than one if you can still see sanding scratches) and then spray clear over that. Do not sand between the final color coat and clear or your sanding scratches will show through the clear coat. You may have to look closely to see them but they will be there. I guess that depends upon how critical you want to be. When it comes to sanding out the orange peel in the clear I always used only 1500 grit and then buffed with various 3M polishes. Almost everyone you run into will tell you to start sanding with say 800 grit, then 1000, then 1200, then 1500, then 2000 and so on until you are using sand paper that is coarser on the back than the front. There are two problems with this. First if you don't get out the say 1000 grit scratches with the 1200, and then continue on down the line, those 1000 grit scratches will show when you buff. Secondly, I used to paint many large pieces that were identical in shape and size and then have the employees do the final color sanding. If they sanded the piece with a progression of grits as I wrote, it would take two of them a day and a half. If they used only 1500 grit it would take them less than a day. I did this test more than once, and I know it may seem counter-intuitive, but you can't argue with the clock.

 

[fletcherson]

Something left out is when wet sanding, use a sanding block sanding sponge, or something flat or you will be following the highs and lows on the surface instead of making it flat. Keep the paper clean, dirt or paint build up will create grooves or deep scratches. Also, depending on the location of the runs, you could simply prep and respray that area, i.e. The bottom edge, etc... blend it, then clear the entire body. No bigger than it is, a total respray would likely be my choice. I couldn't see the runs in your pics, so I can't be more specific. The nice thing about base, clear as opposed to single stage is the base goes on as a matt finish, you don't apply it like a finish coat, it's a much lighter, less viscous fluid, thats why different fluid tips are recommended and runs are not nearly as much of an issue, the clear coat is then applied and is much more forgiving to repair imperfections like orange peel or runs because the color and spray pattern is under it and unaffected. In my opinion, your time as a painter is much better spent applying the material so it is as flat as possible rather than color sanding and buffing. If you can get the top coat to flow out nice, it really minimizes the time and effort required color sanding, it depends on where you prefer to spend your time and energy. Also when wet sanding, using the squeegee designed for this procedure will help you see the scratches from whatever grit paper you use. I'm sure there are tutorials available on line to illustrate various methods if you haven't been exposed to it. Every painter has had to deal with the same issues at one time or another, it's part of it. Also, you mentioned that you mixed two colors to get what you liked... be sure to purchase and mix plenty of paint to allow for repairs or additional parts to be painted later. It's difficult to match mixed colors, much simpler to have a pint or two pre mixed and on the shelf.

 

[fletcherson]

You can sand it with just about anything up to 400 grit to get out the runs. Using finer sand paper than that will just burnish the paint and the next coat may not adhere properly. After sanding out the runs you should spray another coat of color (more than one if you can still see sanding scratches) and then spray clear over that. Do not sand between the final color coat and clear or your sanding scratches will show through the clear coat. You may have to look closely to see them but they will be there. I guess that depends upon how critical you want to be. When it comes to sanding out the orange peel in the clear I always used only 1500 grit and then buffed with various 3M polishes. Almost everyone you run into will tell you to start sanding with say 800 grit, then 1000, then 1200, then 1500, then 2000 and so on until you are using sand paper that is coarser on the back than the front. There are two problems with this. First if you don't get out the say 1000 grit scratches with the 1200, and then continue on down the line, those 1000 grit scratches will show when you buff. Secondly, I used to paint many large pieces that were identical in shape and size and then have the employees do the final color sanding. If they sanded the piece with a progression of grits as I wrote, it would take two of them a day and a half. If they used only 1500 grit it would take them less than a day. I did this test more than once, and I know it may seem counter-intuitive, but you can't argue with the clock.

I was simply explaining the method of wet sanding that is usually recommended (maybe the sandpaper manufacturers?). Everyone who does this has their preferred methods based on their experience and results. My friend who actively builds street rods and restorations told me that they were actually using a da to color sand at a shop that he is familiar with. I haven't personally witnessed that method and would not recommend it to a novice, but of it works, it would save time and effort. Anyone else heard about this method? If so, details would be appreciated, I'm curious.

 

[cmcdanl]

Thanks for the advice guys. That helps a lot. I have already purchased more paint and plan to mix up a gallon of the same color. I'm going to sand the entire body flat and respray another couple of coats, and then follow that up with a few coats of clear so that I have some clear on there to work with. Next paint job I do I will probably try base coat/ clear coat. I chose this SS because it was pretty inexpensive. If I didn't get the runs, I would have been happy with the paint job. But it is what it is. I will get it fixed, hopefully in the next couple weeks. I also ordered my wheels yesterday. They are smoothies with a chrome center cap. I'm going to paint them the same color as the body.

 

[fletcherson]

Thanks for the advice guys. That helps a lot. I have already purchased more paint and plan to mix up a gallon of the same color. I'm going to sand the entire body flat and respray another couple of coats, and then follow that up with a few coats of clear so that I have some clear on there to work with. Next paint job I do I will probably try base coat/ clear coat. I chose this SS because it was pretty inexpensive. If I didn't get the runs, I would have been happy with the paint job. But it is what it is. I will get it fixed, hopefully in the next couple weeks. I also ordered my wheels yesterday. They are smoothies with a chrome center cap. I'm going to paint them the same color as the body.

I learned how to paint with acrylic enamel, it is pretty unforgiving as far as runs go because you had to wait like 30 days to repair it because it cured slow, or grab a reducer rag and wipe it off and respray. It is similar to single stage, but urethane is easier to work with, cures faster. Anyways, if any of my experience good, or bad can help, than it wasn't for not! Just practice on a vertical surface to get your gun adjusted and remember that curves, etc will act as hi spots and accumulate paint. It's sometimes a challenge to get coverage in recesses without over wetting the surrounding areas. Maybe even order a less expensive color of the same type paint to experiment with, be sure your fluid tip is within the recommended range for the material, I personally prefer a bit smaller tip so I can apply the paint slower and get better coverage, but my friend who was trained by several major paint suppliers as part of his job liked heavier wet coats, but he liked to move faster. You have to find your balance. Also, the reducer speed is critical, I like to have medium and fast on hand so I can adapt to the changing environment, but it needs to be considered as part of your style to have good results. My thoughts on color sanding are that if you are only doing one project, it may be wise to hire that part out. If you price the tools and supplies required to do it and factor in the labor and time, it's not a cheap task. A body man who does it as a routine will have the stuff on hand, so it's not as big of a hit. Just a thought, do your research and decide what fits best.

 

[cmcdanl]

Thanks Fletcherson... really good advice. I'm not using any reducer and I'm using a slow activator. This is what I was told to use for my application. I live in Houston where it's 100 degrees right now. so the slow activator is needed. Flash time is about 10 - 15 minutes. I gave about 15-20 minutes between coats. I really think my only mess up was moving too slow on the first coat instead of doing a light mist coat. The next 3 coats were perfect. I think I'll be able to get it right this time. This definitely won't be my only project so I'm planning on doing the color sanding and buffing myself. I'll never learn how to do it if I hire it out.

 

[fletcherson]

Thanks Fletcherson... really good advice. I'm not using any reducer and I'm using a slow activator. This is what I was told to use for my application. I live in Houston where it's 100 degrees right now. so the slow activator is needed. Flash time is about 10 - 15 minutes. I gave about 15-20 minutes between coats. I really think my only mess up was moving too slow on the first coat instead of doing a light mist coat. The next 3 coats were perfect. I think I'll be able to get it right this time. This definitely won't be my only project so I'm planning on doing the color sanding and buffing myself. I'll never learn how to do it if I hire it out.

I don't know about that, I learned a lot from watching guys do things that done it as a routine, but I get the hands on approach too! Activator, reducer... sorry for confusing them, but the theory applies. My dad owned a body shop that I grew up in and the reducer was a big issue with him, he had a specific brand and speed of reducer, I don't remember if it was DuPont or 3 m, but it was a medium fast, and no matter what paint he used, he preferred Sherwin Williams, that was his reducer. It's not recommended to mix brands now, but it worked for him. The heat isn't the only thing that affects curing, keep the humidity in mind too. Even when it's hot, I prefer a medium speed, I seldom use slow, just my preference. Also the freshness of the chemicals really matters. I'm not sure what that products cure time, speed is, but keep in mind the size of the project being painted as well, it doesn't take too much time painting a t bucket as opposed to say a pick up truck, for example, so the longer cure time isn't needed like it would be to get around a larger vehicle to avoid dry spots, etc... just some insight to think about. I do almost everything myself too. I applaud you for your efforts, I know what it takes. Good luck and enjoy it!

 

[Gerry]

My personal opinion is that a Bucket body is not the easiest thing to paint. Lots of curves, undercut back end and finesse lines that like to catch you out. A spray booth helps an awful lot, so us poor old guys who have to wet the garage floor down before we shoot the paint have to adapt and modify. Now when it gets to the frame, that's a whole new experience.

Famous quote from a Clint film. 'endeavour to perceiver'.

 

[Spanky]

BTW, cmcdanl, what did you use for primer under your paint?

 

[cmcdanl]

I used a black epoxy primer (same brand) that I had laying around from when I painted my suspension parts. I like it because it sprays on pretty thick, and I wanted a dark primer since I was spraying a dark color. I let the primer dry and then block sanded it smooth with 600 grit before I sprayed the color.

 

[cmcdanl]

Sooooo I've been absent for some time now. Like a year and a half. I haven't made much progress either. We decided to pull the trigger and built a new house and I got a bigger garage too. 3 car garage is definitely an upgrade from our 2 car. Although all that means is that I just got more toys to fill up the space. Funny how that works. When we sold our old house I had to throw the car together real quick and my only choice was to drive it a few miles down the road to store it at my aunts house. We could not get it on to a trailer. Too wide and too low for the trailer I had. So I risked it and drove it. It did fine and it was a blast. Glad I didn't get pulled over. Anyways... I've got a few pictures of the car put together, however I just started taking it apart again this week to fix some leaks and to re-paint the engine, transmission, and body. I decided I'm going to re-paint the body a brighter red color. This color just looks a little too brown sometimes. I also attached a couple pictures of a desk I built out of a 1950's chevy truck for my new office.

 

[JetMech727]

Sometimes life just gets in the way. Happens to us all. Lakester style headers are cool. And easy to uncorck when you feel the need. Lol Any thought on how you'll run the exhaust? Desk is bitchin as well.

 

[cmcdanl]

Thanks! Yeah life definitely got in the way but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I've been blessed with everything that's happened in the last year, but the hot rod has taken a back seat. Hopefully I will get back on track now. The only thing I plan on doing with the exhaust is making some kind of baffle that is removable for each header. Just to quiet it down just a bit. And I also plan on wrapping it in some black fiberglass header wrap.

 

[cmcdanl]

Got the engine and transmission out and separated them. Good thing I did because as it turns out, the torque converter was bolted to the flywheel with only one bolt. The other two had shaken loose and fallen into the flywheel cover. This is the first time I separated the trans from the engine. Also there's a crack in the flywheel so I'll have to replace that. Fun stuff.

 

[cmcdanl]

I've been tearing into the engine in order to get it cleaned up and ready for paint. Used aircraft remover to strip the paint then used a wire wheel on the block to clean it up real good. I will finish it off with a couple coats of oven cleaner to get any remaining dirt off. I did come across a pretty awesome surprise. As I was stripping the paint off of the engine I noticed "403" stamped really big on the side of the block. So I googled it and found out that I in fact have an oldsmobile 403. This whole time I thought it was a 350. They look identical from the outside besides the 403 stamp. However the bore is 4.35 compared to 4.06 in the 350. Supposedly it's the largest bore they ever made in a small block. It's rated at 185/320 (BHP/Torque) compared to the 350 - 170/275. The 403 was only produced from 1977-1979. So a pleasant surprise to say the least.

 

[Intrepid]

Well I would say by looking at the picture that it looks nothing like a Chev, maybe it looks like an Olds 350.
A friend of mine way back when I was a kid had his first car and swore up and down it was a 400 chev small block. It wasn't until he was trying to change the intake manifold and found nothing lined up right that he found out he had an Olds engine.

cool find though, nothing like finding you got a free upgrade.

 

[cmcdanl]

Oh yeah I knew it was an oldsmobile. I mean I took the engine out of the old station wagon, so I never thought it was a chevy. I thought it was an oldsmobile 350. But yeah a nice free upgrade for sure. I didn't realize how different the oldsmobile engine was from a chevy until this project though. It has it's pros and cons. One thing I like is that the distributor doesn't stab through the intake manifold. So you can remove the manifold without having to remove the distributor.

 

[Intrepid]

i think it looks cool.. I like the heat distribution in the block around the exhaust ports. I bet the block would look great polished.

 

[cmcdanl]

I agree I think it looks pretty cool and it’s something different for a change. I plan on trying to smooth the block out as much as possible before painting it gloss black.